Is it right to take religious connection out of Christmas?

[lpstong]

I know during the 2005 Christmas Season that many businesses had stopped saying Merry Christmas or totally took the whole idea out of their biggest sale of the year. Where they say Happy Holidays.

Or many malls that stopped having Santa Clause.

Or that many businesses had sent memo's out encouraging their co-workers to say "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas.

And for several years school districts call it winter break instead of Christmas break.

Or on at the White House the Christmas tree was called the Holiday Tree.

I just find this incrediable. They celebrate a christian holiday, yet take all the religious connotation out of it. Better yet the great profit they make off of a religious holiday. Or the time off that school districts get because of a religious holiday. What a oxymoron to say the least.

[sheepsnot]

Note: My comment here was in response to a post which has since been removed. Please don't think I have lost my mind. Again. If LP was talking about simply including "Happy Holidays" along with "Merry Christmas," etc., you'd be right, but he is talking about a concerted effort to remove Merry Christmas because of the reference to Jesus Christ. If we are really a tolerant nation, why not tolerate Christian greetings rather than legislate against them in favor of nice, but non-religious, ones?

[Jeff Westover]

I personally think the whole "Happy Holidays" thing was a bunch of media hogwash. Oh, sure. I work retail and my company talked about it too. You know what happened? The folks working for us got a little peeved and said Merry Christmas! more than they would have.

My experience out and about with it was that if you heard "Happy Holidays" that got people mad so they didn't say it.

Jeff

[dowload]

I always thought they said happy holidays because of not just Christmas but there's Hanukah and New Years so I just thought they said happy holidays cause it's easier than saying Merry Christmas Happy Hanukah and Happy New Year.

[Andrex]

Just like the profiteerers whose tables were overturned by Jesus, they'll get theirs. ;)

[sheepsnot]

Well, dowload, you're right for the most part. There's a very popular Christmas song called Happy Holidays from waaaaay back when people did say it to capture the whole season, so there certainly is nothing wrong with saying it for that purpose. When you decide it is the only right way to express holiday greetings and any saying that reflects religious heritage is unacceptable, that's when it becomes ridiculous. Saying Jesus Christ is perfectly acceptable, but screaming it when you hit your thumb with a hammer is not. It just depends on what you mean. 8) :grin:

[Jeff Westover]

It just depends on what you mean.

Ah, that's the rub.

I commissioned a reaserch firm to conduct a survey for a project we're working on and it asked this simple question:

Is Christmas sacred or secular?

The results were most interesting. While we say "Merry Christmas" and may mean it one way the chances of it being perceived another way are extremely high.

As a society, we define Christmas so differently that we're bound to have the kinds of conflicts we see publicized each holiday season.

It kind of reminds me of the scene in "My Cousin Vinny" when the defendant kept exclaiming "I shot the clerk?"

What we say and what they think we're saying are often two different things. Too bad that has to happen with Christmas.

Jeff

[sheepsnot]

When I say Merry Christmas to someone I don't even take into account their belief system (Someone's gonna copy that and burn me for it!) because I'm just wishing them a happy holiday season. If I know the beliefs of someone and I know they wouldn't appreciate it, I adjust accordingly. My neighbors are Hindu. I'd use a more generic expression with them, but they are so kind and understanding, they wouldn't be offended anyway. I guess what I am saying is that I don't mind at all people using a non-religious expression of well-wishing. I just wish they wouldn't demand that I do the same. And now, like Clinton after the "Don't ask, don't tell" fiasco, I'm all out of ideas. 8)

[Jeff Westover]

I find a real brotherhood with those not of my faith. Don't know why that is, and that is not to say I don't have friends who are of my faith. But ultimately I'm interested in religion and I want to understand why folks believe the way they do. I learn alot from them and about myself in the process. So I try very hard NOT to be offended when someone says something contrary to my own way of thinking. I don't know a lot of people like that but when I find them, I cherish them. And one of the reasons I do is because I can say "Merry Christmas" to them and they understand where I am coming from and why.

Jeff

[mrshfromjersey]

I say Merry Christmas to people. If I know that the person is Jewish, I say Merry Christmas and Happy Hannukah. I wish all people would just get along. It's the differences that make us all special. Saying Happy Holidays just takes what makes us all special and turns everyone into generic cookie cutter people. Isn't that what communism was all about - everyone the same?

[caseydbell]

Here is an idea....
Fun with the ACLU
Wanna have some fun this CHRISTMAS? Send the ACLU a CHRISTMAS CARD!

As they are working so very hard to get rid of the CHRISTMAS part of this
holiday, we should all send them a nice, CHRISTIAN, card to brighten up
their dark, sad, little world.

Make sure it says "Merry Christmas" on it.

Here's the Address, just don't be rude or crude.
(It's Not the Christian Way ya know!)


ACLU
125 Broad Street
18th Floor
New York, NY 10004

Two tons of Christmas cards would freeze their operations because they
wouldn't know if any were regular mail containing contributions.. So spend
39 cents and tell the ACLU to leave Christmas alone. Also tell them that
there is no such thing as a "Holiday Tree". . . . It's a Christmas Tree
even in the fields!!

And pass this on to your email lists. We really want to communicate with
the ACLU! They really DESERVE us!!

[sheepsnot]

Didn't I just see this post yesterday? Or, am I psychic? That would be cool. I could tell in advance what's for dinner and decide if I had to work late accordingly.

[caseydbell]

I posted this yesterday in another forum. I posted it again because I want to make sure everyone sees it, and then maybe even do it.

[dvdguy]

i'll ask the missus to tell you the story of purchasing christmas cards & getting happy holidays.
Take it away hun

[mrshfromjersey]

Being budget conscious around Christmas 2005, I purchased a box of 25 assorted Christmas cards that had a big picture of Santa on the front. Now, you would think that a box of 25 assorted Christmas cards with Santa on the front of the box would include 25 CHRISTMAS cards, wouldn't you? Not this box!! I opened it and 11 out of the 25 cards said "Happy Holidays" on them. Well, I had it. I put those 11 "Happy Holidays" cards in an envelope and wrote a letter to the company stating that I bought a box of 25 Christmas cards and it seemed that 11 "Happy Holidays" cards were put into my box by accident. I told them that, if I had wanted "Happy Holidays" cards, I would have BOUGHT "Happy Holidays" cards and that, in the future, I would make sure any cards I bought were not manufactured by their company. I sent the package off in the mail never expecting to hear back from them. One day in February of this year, I came home from work to find a package at my door. The company wrote back appologizing and included 6 boxes of Christmas Cards, a Christmas themed address book and a Christmas notepad. Who said that complaining and sticking up for your rights won't get you any where. I had reached my "happy holidays" limit and I let this company know. :razz:

[digbugsgirl]

You go Mrs H! How cool is that??!??!??!

[lpstong]

Woot this is great. What an idea. If you want a worthwhile spam email. I thing this would be great. Or is this was in a chain letter. But either way must sending thousands of Merry Christmas Cards is a wonderful idea.

[sheepsnot]

Just curious if any of you have read John Gibson's book, The War on Christmas? I haven't, and am suspect of it because of the subtitle - How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday is Worse than You Thought. I'd like a well thought out book on the subject without name calling, which doesn't usually generate thoughtful discussion. [Wife in background, "Shut up, you moron!] See what I mean? :-D

[dvdguy]

the problem here is everybody has names for the other guy & likes to use them. & if theres not a name for something you can bet somebody will make one up fast

[caseydbell]

I love Gibson. Sheep are you a foxnews Fan? A republican?

[sheepsnot]

I don't mind spouting off my personal views here, but probably won't align myself with any political group. Too much baggage comes with a name and it too easily steers us off the Christmas course.

[dvdguy]

no politics in christmas.

[caseydbell]

But do you watch FOXnews

[Michael Rielly]

Question: If someone said to you "Happy Hanukah", would you be offended? I’m not!

[dvdguy]

not at all, celebarate what you want. The spirit is there

[sheepsnot]

But do you watch FOXnews No. I don't have cable.

[Jeff Westover]

I'm about to get myself in trouble with Foxnews.

[dvdguy]

why what did you do to them?lol

[mrshfromjersey]

I watch FoxNews...the morning show...Fox and Friends. They all make me laugh. I love Tiki Tuesday when Tiki Barber is on.

And if someone says Happy Hannukah...I thank them. After all...Jesus was Jewish! I was lucky to have parents that wanted us to know about other religions. We celebrated Passover one year with a traditional Sater meal. I believe the more you know about other people, countries and religions, the more tolerant you are. I just don't want Christmas to loose it's meaning - which is why I don't care for Happy Holidays OR black friday.

[caseydbell]

Question: If someone said to you "Happy Hanukah", would you be offended? I’m not!

No, of couse not. On my Christmas website I have a Chanukah page.

[gameshowguy2000]

Well, there's a reason why we call it the Holiday season and not just the Christmas season.

Like I described in my "Holiday Tree vs. Christmas Tree" thread, the Holiday season is NOT just about Christmas alone, but instead is about THREE holidays: Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's.

[sheepsnot]

And that is valid if you are utilizing the expression for that purpose, but what about those who are using it to avoid the word Christ or Christmas? As I said earlier, there is a difference between the holiday season and the Christmas tree. The tree has not ever represented Thanksgiving or New Years, yet its name is being forcibly changed as well. granted, when all is said and done, so far no one has outlawed saying it as a civilian, but you can bet it's coming.

[mrshfromjersey]

Merry Christmas may be a Happy Holiday (unless Santa brings you coal)
Christmas Tree is NOT a holiday tree
Christmas Decorations are NOT holiday decorations
Christmas Wrap is NOT holiday wrap
Christmas Cookies are absolutely NOT holiday cookies
A Menorah is NOT a holiday candle holder
A Dreidle is NOT a holiday toy

Enough said

[Ervserver]

I dont care when going to Wal Mart for instance if the clerk says Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas, It's when people start being TOLD what to say is when I start to mind.

[gameshowguy2000]

I dont care when going to Wal Mart for instance if the clerk says Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas, It's when people start being TOLD what to say is when I start to mind.

Kinda like the SaveMerryChristmas.org campaign?

[sheepsnot]

They aren't telling stores to say, "Merry Christmas." That's the difference between them and the folks who ARE telling people what to say. Savemerrychristmas.org asks stores to allow their employees to say Merry Christmas if they want to. No store HAS to say it. The anti-Merry Christmas folks say no store should be allowed to say it. That's what's objectionable. You think it's OK to make a law where noone can say Merry Christmas because some people object. Who is forcing who here?

[gameshowguy2000]

They aren't telling stores to say, "Merry Christmas." That's the difference between them and the folks who ARE telling people what to say. Savemerrychristmas.org asks stores to allow their employees to say Merry Christmas if they want to. No store HAS to say it. The anti-Merry Christmas folks say no store should be allowed to say it. That's what's objectionable. You think it's OK to make a law where noone can say Merry Christmas because some people object. Who is forcing who here?

The SaveMerryChristmas.org campaign (as well as the Religious Right) is what's forcing the stores to take "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" out.

Either I'm not reading the site very carefully, or I'm just dreaming.

[Ervserver]

What about Vetrans day, Columbus day? I'm ok with calling it the holiday season but when I talk about Christmas I'm being specific. Christmas trees, ornaments, nutcrackers, reindeer, etc are for Christmas not Thanksgiving, etc.

[sheepsnot]

Either I'm not reading the site very carefully, or I'm just dreaming.
My guess is that you are not reading the site very well. Here is a quote from the site: "The Committee to Save Merry Christmas is encouraging stores to publicly promote Christmas in all locations and to allow their employees the freedom to say, 'Merry Christmas' to their customers." You have purposely changed their method from "encouraging" to FORCING because it helps to make your point. Over and over they "encourage" the readers to support (with their business, obviously) those stores who "allow" their employees to use traditional Christmas greetings.
If potential boycotting is the equivalent of forcing someone to do something, then you're right, but it isn't. You want laws enacted which actually prohibit the use of "Merry Christmas" and such in an effort to be all things to all men, but that tactic is much more a show of force than a boycott. You have no problem with boycotting stores that sell furs or boycotting stores that do anything else you might not agree with because it is an acceptable method of expressing your views. Why not allow it here?

[Ervserver]

encourage and force are two very different things

[gameshowguy2000]

You're right about that.

But, here we are in the 2nd annual War On Christmas, and we're pretty much tangled up in this mess!

[Ervserver]

no mess for me, I celebrate Christmas in my way. Drive past my house you'll see MERRY CHRISTMAS, those who don't like it can look the other way.

[gameshowguy2000]

I'll greet everyone with both Merry Christmas AND Happy Holidays (as well as Season's Greetings).

[mrshamm]

A friend of mine came up to visit today so that I could help her pick out their artificial Christmas tree. Well, we went to a Walmart that I wasn't familiar with so, we asked a clerk where their Christmas trees were. He replied with our Holiday trees are in the garden department. She looked at him and said I was asking where your Christmas trees are...not Holiday trees. He proceeded to tell us that in that store they weren't allowed to refer to them as Christmas trees. Needless to say, we took our business to a store that sold what we were looking for....CHRISTMAS trees.




I don't care if people say Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas. As long as they aren't told what to say and as long as they allow other people to choose what they want to say.

[sheepsnot]

The memo must not have reached them yet.

[gameshowguy2000]

I don't care if people say Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas. As long as they aren't told what to say and as long as they allow other people to choose what they want to say.

And as long as the employees choose what greeting to use. I greet each and everyone with Happy Holidays, Season's Greetings, AND Merry Christmas.

You want to make EVERYONE happy, not just a select few.

[Crimbo_Spirit]

I for one dont think it is , it a bit funny with just plain old father christmas :smile: :-D

[Michael Rielly]

I have never had anyone ask me to refrain from saying Merry Christmas. Although I do know of some instances where Santas have been asked not to discuss the religion aspect of Christmas. I'm sorry, but how do you spell CHRISTmas again????

[scrooge2]

Here in England we are having a problem with political correctness. Nobody wants to offend people who don't celebnrate Christmas, so this has led to Christmas lights being called "winter lights", and in some schools nativity plays have been banned. Outrageous!

[haagarr]

I say Merry Christmas thats how I was raised its a joyous time of year also a celebration of life.Growing up during Christmas we had Christmas parties in the schools everybody said Merry Christmas I wish we could bring that back.

[Chillywilly]

I agree. Like I have said on other post it is Merry Christmas for me and my house.

[scooterbugs25]

I was raised in a religion that did not accept Christmas as a Christian holiday they taught it stemmed from pagans. I heard it said, Christ never wanted in Christmas anyways. So it did not matter what it is or is not called, they rejected it all together.

Then my dads family was the devote Catholics who celebrated Christmas as one of the holiest days of the year. going out for everything. Gifts tree's party etc..

So in our home Christmas was celebrated as a day that we came together as a family, My mom being against it as a christian holiday would accept it called as Christmas from my dads family simply because we're taught to keep Christ in everyday.

We had very fun Christmas's' growing up. It was not at all secular but we understood that DEC 25 is not the actual birth of Christ. We just enjoyed being with each other and having a great time. It was never talked about or questioned by anyone what the word "Christmas or holiday" meant. It was simply a greeting for that time of the year!

So I as an adult have made the decision to go with my mothers teaching, Christ is apart of my everyday life not just once a year. So to me Christmas is all about what each person would make it to be. For some it is another day, For others it is a holy day and others claim it as a day to clean the house and catch up on the chores they can not do normally for working so much and use it as a day of rest.

What ever people may say, I will still call it Christmas! I wish people would stop over analyzing things and just take it as a grain of salt and go on there way. If they don't like it. then don't say it. The minority always has a louder voice then the majority it seems to me many are afraid to speak up for what they feel is right, Because of the whole "political correctness" thing. Then the media makes things appear larger then it really is. Go with what you know! Do your own research and find it for yourself.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[MissKringle]

I don't even let it bother me, I say merry Christmas &
to me Happy Holidays is just another greeting on the cards.

[gameshowguy2000]

I use Merry Christmas, Season's Greetings, and Happy Holidays. As usual, I don't call Christmas a religious holiday, because not everyone thinks about the birth of Christ when they think of the word "Christmas".

For most people these days, words like Santa, snowmen, candy canes, etc. all come to mind when we think of Christmas. (Jesus may be the reason for the season for some, but for most of us, it's Santa and snowmen)

[Clark Griswold]

I have a very strong connection with Christmas. I don't know why. Perhaps it's the fact that I myself love helping people when I can. I like doing good deeds and I like seeing people happy.

However, in the last few years - people have turned Christmas into a joke. Christmas is about Christmas trees, stars, nativity, wreaths, candy canes, frosty, santa etc etc. There are alot of different religions that beleive alot of things.

I myself, won't say I don't beleive in "God" - I think there is "something" out there. I just am not convinced it's a single person. Then again, I am still unsure of that whole thing as it is now so I won't go there. Anyways, I don't practice a religion. Our family knows what Christmas is about.

It's about family, helping, giving, and doing for others. If you beleive in a religion that says Christmas is a celebration of Christ, then that's what Christmas means to you plus whatever else it means. That's the cool thing about the Christmas, it means whatever you want it to mean.

Then, you have people that throw fits for not having a menorah, which I have aptly renamed, the holiday candle stick since the same people have a need to rename MY Christmas tree, a holiday tree. People don't understand, it's a Christmas tree. If you don't beleive in it, that is fine. There is no need to rename it to suite your faith. How would you like me to go around and start renaming your things because they don't fit my perception of the season? Also, Happy Holidays? We can't say Merry Christmas? If somone is offended, they should be ashamed! Whether you beleive in Christmas or not, it's not an insult, it's a greeting to express joy and sincerity. Those that become offended or outraged should go back to their holes.

Christmas has been Christmas for many years. Why do we have to change it? Why do we - US citizens need to change our ways? The dominant faith here is Christianity but thats all I know. Christmas is our culture.

Let's go to Isreal and raise a fuss about no trees! Bet that would go over well.

Anyways, I love the holidays and I love Christmas! I always will. cheesy

:tree:

[dominick]

Slow down there fella. You have a lot of misplaced anger towards the Jews. For the most part, they're not the ones complaining. It's more-so the atheists and the overly PC that purport to be Christian than anything.

Furthermore, the commercialization of Christmas is not something that just began in the last couple years.

[Clark Griswold]

Slow down there fella. You have a lot of misplaced anger towards the Jews. For the most part, they're not the ones complaining. It's more-so the atheists and the overly PC that purport to be Christian than anything.

Furthermore, the commercialization of Christmas is not something that just began in the last couple years.


Did not realize it came out that way. Let me clarify - I have no anger towards any religion at all.

My reference here was to that incident when (I forget which one) a specific airport took down all it's trees because some people complained that their "symbols" were not up there as well.

Again, I do not hate anyone. My post was not meant to infer that. I just get frustrated wtih the whole renaming of things and yadda yadda yadda.

[gameshowguy2000]

And as usual, why do they call it the tree a Holiday Tree? As I stated in my "Christmas Tree vs. Holiday Tree" thread, the same reason why the season isn't just called the Christmas season. It's the Holiday Season, which involves 3-5 holidays (the main 3 are Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's; those who celebrate Hannukah and Kwanzaa can make it 5)

[dominick]

You know what? Honestly, I don't really care what other people call it. I know it's a Christmas tree. You know it's a Christmas tree. Why should we make such a big deal out of it? I'm really getting sick of this whole religion vs religion vs secular vs chain stores BS. Christmas should not be this confrontational. Normally I'm the first one to argue a political point, but this is hardly the venue for such discussion.

No one is threatening our right to celebrate as we wish. Let it be.

By the way, I've never even heard anyone say holiday tree.

[Jeff Westover]

Only politicians call it a holiday tree.

[Misfit Toy]

I think its all a crazy debate to begin with, who cares. Let people say what they want and everyone celebrates it for different reasons, let them decide. We don’t need someone to decide for us. Its like people always wanna fight over something, even the most happy and innocent things. Holiday Tree/Xmas Tree, oi its not even worth it. It's a tree, buy it and decorate anyway you want. I've seen many with Hanukkah decorations on them.

Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings I think probably is best for department stores and what not, I mean it's a good and nice general saying and covers everything. But either way, I mean some people just have to realize some people celebrate it, some don’t, some celebrate other holidays and some celebrate it for religious reasons, some celebrate it for non religious reasons and the Winter Solstice and then you even have some religious people that don’t celebrate it because to them it is the Winter Solstice. So, it should really not be a matter of debate, just let people do as they please. Its so great because it represents something different to everyone, whatever someone greets you with or whatever anyone calls it, its still representing a happy time of year and thats all it should be looked upon as.

:rudolph:

[ChristmasSpirit76]

:merry:Just my opionion on this.... I am a christian and celbrate the birth of Jesus at that time(even though its not his actual birth) but i also celebrate the secular way, Yes i believe in Jesus and yet at the same time believe in Santa :transform:
I believe Christmas is about family,love,joy,goodwill, and happiness. I also feel that however anyone celebrates Christmas, Hanukkah, or Kwanza is their right and if someone offers me a Happy Holiday,Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or Happy Kwanza I say thank you and wish them the same. I am never offended or say i don't celebrate that so don't wish me a Happy____ We all celebrate life in our on unique way. No two people even celebrate christmas the same way. Thats just my opionion and i hope i didn't ofend anyone. Peace to All

[Montana's Santa]

In a day when we are required to be tolerant of other religions -- creating washrooms for Muslim students to prepare for prayer in public schools and universities, attend to special diets for those of other faiths... shouldn't it be a matter of courteous reciprocity for them to allow us our beliefs? Before Christmas, I say happy holidays. Starting December 1 I say "Merry Christmas" -- and nobody wants to correct Santa Claus!

[Jeff Westover]

Seriously...have you ever run in to anyone outside of the media, a school official or a politician who refuses to say "Merry Christmas"?

[JayIsh]

I've always been an easy going guy. I have certain beliefs that I hold dear. They include Jesus. That's what works for me. That's where my faith lives. If anyone out there does not hold a belief in Jesus, I can live with that. What irks me to no end, is when anyone tries to tell me how I'm supposed to celebrate my holiday. You want your candy canes and trees and snowflakes and mistletoe...I LOVE that stuff...You want your nativity, your Silent Night, your midnight masses...I LOVE that stuff too. You do your thing and let me do mine...Truly, that's what "Peace on earth and goodwill towards men" means...right? If offend anyone with my Merry Christmas...Sorry kid...It's only once a year...Political correctness weakens the country...We can't be all things to all people, so let's just be who we are!!! If you cut in front of someone in line...Say your sorry...If you hurt someone with a mean thing you've said...say your sorry...Otherwise, we don't need to be sorry for who we are...No permission needed...