Christmas in the Schools

[Jeff Westover]

Is it done anymore? Or do the schools in your area call December a "celebration of winter" too? In the schools here you cannot even say "Christmas".

It's ridiculous.

Jeff

[gracie]

ok here we go!!! I dont want to offend anyone ------ but here goes anyway. I am a christian and I think we should celebrate Christs birth anywhere we want to--on the other hand I would not want my kids to celebrate Allahs or Buddahs birthday. So this is a tricky one. I dont like the fact that we have to say Happy Holidays to be politically correct ,I always smile and say Merry Christmas. Am I a pain in the neck? I certianly hope not ,I just want to let the world know I love my Lord and Savior . Our Country was founded on Christianity and we should be able ot keep those values . I dont see how celebrating Christmas is forcing religion down anyones throat but some folks say it is--Its sort of like being a bible thumper( I find that term funny- not offensive ) but we are using christmas carol books instead of bibles.So Jeff, Do I think we should be able to celebrate Christmas in the schools? In a word----YES!

[gracie]

ok here we go!!! I dont want to offend anyone ------ but here goes anyway. I am a christian and I think we should celebrate Christs birth anywhere we want to--on the other hand I would not want my kids to celebrate Allahs or Buddahs birthday. So this is a tricky one. I dont like the fact that we have to say Happy Holidays to be politically correct ,I always smile and say Merry Christmas. Am I a pain in the neck? I certianly hope not ,I just want to let the world know I love my Lord and Savior . Our Country was founded on Christianity and we should be able ot keep those values . I dont see how celebrating Christmas is forcing religion down anyones throat but some folks say it is--Its sort of like being a bible thumper( I find that term funny- not offensive ) but we are using christmas carol books instead of bibles.So Jeff, Do I think we should be able to celebrate Christmas in the schools? In a word----YES!

School is no place to talk about Christmas if you ask me. They should take God out of the pledge too. And they need to get rid of Martin Luther King day. He was a religious figure. If you can't sing Jingle Bells then the good reverend needs to sit down.

Maximus

[Jeff Westover]

Maximus,

First of all, welcome. Gracie's right, this can be emotionally charged as an issue.

But I wouldn't go so far as to say Martin Luther King needs to sit down. But I think you're just making a point and I get it.

When the angels announced to the shepherds the Birth of the Savior they said basically this: "Peace on earth and goodwill to all men".

I don't see anything politically incorrect in that. We all said "Merry Christmas" when I was growing up and none of us ended with three heads.

And God stays in my pledge.

Jeff

[Mr. Christmas]

Agreed, Jeff. God will be in my pledge. Like Aaron Tippin's great song says: "I pledge allegance to my flag, if that bothers you, well that's too bad." And Christmas will be part of my vocabulary whenever and wherever I go. If others don't like it, they don't have to say it, no ones forcing them. And I think its wrong for us to be forced to give up the 10 commandments in court houses.

[frank8265]

I can't think of a good reason why any school (be it in the us or europe or anywhere) shouldn't or couldn't teach about our christian background and upbringing like christmas, easter, etc...
It's part of our heritage, part of us. And something to be proud of.

I can understand why different cultures might look strangy at christmas, but we don't tell them to give up their religion or culture? Wouldn't do any good any way I think.

Just let us be proud of who we are and let us pas our background, traditions, heritage on to our childeren, grandchilderen and so on....
And thank God that we have this to pas on. :smile:

[SnowAngel]

okay, I understand that everyone wants children to learn about the Christmas holiday and such, and it's true, you should be able to say Merry Christmas when you want. But taking "Christmas" out of schools doesn't prevent someone to spread the Christmas cheer. Saying Happy Holidays is not being politically incorrect, it's spreading the happiness to others no matter what belief system you or they may have. Christmas is not the only holiday celebrated in December and if it's looked on as a politcally correct way by anyone, then maybe they should do some soul searching. Happy Holidays to me says, "hey, i hope you're having a good one, just like i. enjoy!"

Our country was not founded for just Christians. It was founded for religious freedom, not just for Christians. As a country, we have had millions of people from different races, cultures and religious backgrounds come here for these same reasons. Christian children go to school with jewish, muslim, hindu (among many other religions) everyday. But, why don't they spend weeks learning about their beliefs? Growing up as a Catholic in a public school, I was always upset as to why we didn't learn about Channuka or Ramadan or anything else as a matter of fact. I didn't think it was fair. I went to school with just as many Jewish kids as I did with Christians and I've heard how unfair it was to them from their own mouths. I had to ask those kids about the holidays they celebrated to learn anything about them. Why does december just have to be about Christmas? Why can't they incorporate all religious holidays celebrated in that same month to teach the children respect and understanding for other religions? In public school it doesn't even have to take the religious form, they can teach just the traditions of each holiday. For those Christians that feel the need to teach only Christian beliefs in school we have the Perocial school system for just that.

I've read in a post that someone doesn't want other religions pushed on their child so why should your religion be pushed on another? Kids of different religions aren't there to learn Christian ways, they're there to learn. period. You can't chose sides and you can't chose one over the other. How do you think it feels to the little kid sitting in the middle of the class that worships many gods (Hindu) and has no idea how the Christian belief system works and is basically forced fed Christmas, then the teacher moves on to math and says nothing about any other holiday, including his own?

Didn't Jesus say, "do unto others what you have them do unto you" ?

My opinion, either teach them all or don't teach them at all.

God in the pledge of alliegence is okay to me because God is a symbol for all not just for one.

and that's my two cents :D

[scottishrose]

What upsets me is the music program. I don't care of they sing Dreidel (SP?) Dreidel or some Kwanzaa song or any song (my middle schooler sang African, Japenese and Jewish songs last year!!)...
So why is it they can't sing ONE traditional American Christmas Carol????

My kids have never once sang a traditional Chrsitmas carol in school. They look at me in bewilderment when I sing them because they don'tknow the words...and in band and orchestra they're not playing them either!!
I'm all for educating on other traditions but why does that mean we sacrifice ours??

Annie

[drumboytko]

If this makes anyone feel better, at my school which I graduated, they call school vacation the "Holiday Break" but as well as all the other religious holiday songs someone else had referred to earlier, my school also always does a traditional christmas song at their holiday concerts. I plan on being a music teacher someday, and I plan on doing the same with my students. Actually, my senior year in high school, I remember us playing about half Christmas songs. We played probably 2 or 3. And I only graduated 3 years ago, and my brother currently is in chorus, and it is still the same. So not every school district has gone all politically correct.

[dowload]

ok seriously this is a stupid thing to be fightning about. For one i'm only a seventh grader from a small town in maine. at my school we celebrate christmas but not in depth. like we just have parties and stuff like that. but for one thing 4 someone to be saying we shouldn't have Martin Luther King day that's just wrong. He was one man and helped out thousand of people. And about the pledge. if u don't want to say under god then get ready to plug ur ears buddy cause it aint going.



that's just my thought though

[Jeff Westover]

Welcome, dowload. It is great to get your perspective! Thanks for being here.

Jeff

[dowload]

Thank you. I thought i was kinda going out on a limb there but i'm glad to see that people still listen to us kids.

[Smemorina]

:grin:
Ciao
nelle scuole private gestite da suore o preti ancora si parla e si vive il Natale, certo le scuole pubbliche lo vive solo come festa, ne parlano ormai poco, e già dai 6/7 anni i bambini non credono a Santa ma sanno che sono i genitori a portare i regali.
Per me è sbagliato dire che Santa non esiste, finisce una magia, un sogno...
Molte scuole ormai ha tanti bambini di altre religioni e questo influisce molto (purtroppo a molti manca il rispetto per le tradizioni del paese che ti ospita!)
Io per quanto posso lascio i miei figli vivere la magia del natale.
CIAOOOO


Hello
in the private schools nuns or priests managed from still speak themselves and she only lives Christmas, sure the public schools the alive ones like festivity, of it they speak by now little, and from the 6/7 years the children already do not believe Santa but they know that they are the parents to carry gifts.
For me it is mistaken to say that Santait does not exist, ends one magic, a dream...
Many schools by now have many children of other religions and this influences a lot (to many unfortunately lacks the respect for the traditions the country that it accommodates to you!) I for how much can I leave my sons living the magic of the christmas
CIAOOO

[Twinkle]

Smemorina: I could not read your first Italian post but my husband could. He is Sicilian and we visited Sicily last May. I loved Sicily! It was bella bella. It was difficult for me because I cannot speak the language so my husband had to interpret everything. We had an absolutely wonderful time, loved the people, and hope to return. Welcome to the board and so good having someone from Italy with us. In Sicily we saw many Christian traditions upheld everywhere we went. Papa Pio's picture was in every business and home, along with a crucifix..Can you imagine a crucifix in an office building in America?
As we know, America has become the melting pot for all religious faiths. Muslim faith has been growing by leaps and bounds. In France, it is approx 90 percent Muslim now.
England is also growing fast in this faith. As I understand it, Muslim faith is peaceful being believers in Allah (God) but there are always some who become radical and spoil the view of the religion. However, the Muslim faith nor any other did not found the country of America and it should be remembered that our forefathers created the constitution and the bill of rights which act to govern the great country of America. Because we do have freedom of religion in America I believe there are some trying to spoil it for the majority by imposing their secluded views. For instance, one athiest can cause prayer to be taken out of the schools which we know happened many years ago. I say when you remove God from our schools, God removes Himself and we are on our own which is just sad to me because I see this is where it's at today. Nothing surprises me anymore. If we do not teach our children at home Christian principles/Godly values, it will not happen in the schools and this is just the way it has become and seems to be getting further and further away from God.

[sheepsnot]

Wow! You guys are really smart folks. I am sincere in that, not being sarcastic. You have said so much that is worth thinking about on this issue. Now, my turn to say just a little. Fact: God created the universe in which we live. This is not a religious fact, but a fact, like the fact that Karl Malone should have retired in Utah. So, to purposely remove Him from any part of life in order to avoid offending those who choose not to believe in Him is wrong. Can you imagine if Adam and Eve had decided not to mention God's name around Cain because he might be offended? It sounds ridiculous on a small scale like that, but it is just as ridiculous to honor unbelief on a national scale. I can't look back to see who said it right now, but one of you was dead on when you said that even if the government bans the mention of God everywhere in public, that doesn't prevent you from teaching your own family. By teaching our family and then our close friends and then co-workers, etc., we will eventually see Christmas return to the schools and the post office. (What do they call Christmas seals now, anyway?) Happy Late-December Festival, everyone! :lol:

[Jeff Westover]

From where I'm sitting I don't see any particular group expressing "offense". What I see are ACLU types speaking "in behalf" of non-Christians who they claim are offended.

This is America. If someone in particular is offended we usually know who it is and they don't hide behind the skirts of the ACLU.

I just think people use Christmas as a means to advance political agendas.

Jeff

[SnowAngel]

It seems to me that i'm in the minority on this topic and that's fine. I just want to clarify that i'm not speaking on behalf of people, i'm speaking from personal experience. This was never an arguement" to me, just a place to express opinions and it was never done with the intention of sharing any political views i may have. i just wanted to make that clear. :grin: :D :grin:

[sheepsnot]

I can go along with the idea of respecting other world religions as long as that simply means to treat the adherents as fellow human beings. I cannot respect their beliefs if that means I must treat all religions as equal. How many belief systems will the Creator respect? If your answer is one, and I think that's right, then that's how many belief systems I should respect as well. Our country was not founded on the idea of 21st century tolerance for all things religious but on a Judeo-Christian foundation of faith in the Creator God. Well, I'm overdue for a dose of eggnog, so I'm shutting my cakehole. I really enjoy everyone's company. Thanks for your ideas and fellowship. :) :lol: 8-) :-) :D :grin:

[Mr. Christmas]

We need to keep it in our schools and families. And if some people are offended or don't believe in it, they can just not pay any attention or say it. It's like if I traveled to a foreign country whose national religion was different than Christianity, I wouldn't ask them to change their culture and way of life to mine. I just wouldn't participate in their religious things and I wouldn't say what they say. That's what upsets me about this whole thing. People want to change our lives to theirs. Well, what if I want to change their lives to ours. Would that be right? No. Why can't those people see this? I have no clue.

[Twinkle]

Gracie: I just read your post re being a Christian. I am a Christian too and I just wish more folks would step up to the plate and declare this more and not allow the outrageous minorities cause havoc in our schools and government.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/Lizilu2/Nativity.jpg

[SnowAngelChristmas]

At my middle school, We call it Winter Break. And insted of secret Santa it's Holiday buddy. But that's okay. I think it would be right to not offend anyone because a few of my friends are Hannakah (excuse my spelling) people.

As for taking "under god" out of the pledge, in my book it's staying!

[Stargazer]

We don't necessarily "celebrate" it at our school, but most of the decorations are still primarily Christmas-themed. We do have Hannukah decorations as well, though. We also have the Winter Concert and Winter Break. It's a pretty well-balanced thing at our school, and everybody seems to accept the diversity of beliefs.

Personally, I think that if things like Hannukah and Kwanzaa are allowed to be celebrated, it's just ridiculous if Christmas isn't allowed.

[Jeff Westover]

Why is it in some places that the exploration of Islam or Hinduism, etc is called educational culture but the straightforward history telling of Christmas is avoided?

In some places the balance just isn't there. Here in Utah the word Christmas cannot be uttered by a school teacher. And I haven't met one yet who will actually teach it.

[Mr. Christmas]

In Ohio, teachers can talk about Christmas and the break from school is still called Christmas break. We don't have any big problems with people going against it. But in Pennsylvania, I think the Easter Bunny now has to be called the "Holiday Rabbit"

[sheepsnot]

I was just reading a resolution put out by the Nashville government about the use of the word Christmas and the phrase "Merry Christmas" when referring to official gov't events such as parties, etc. In building a case for allowing these words, they said, "WHEREAS, Jesus Christ is an actual man who was born over 2,000 years ago, as recorded by history and WHEREAS, Jesus' life and teachings were and are so extraordinary that they have profoundly impacted the entire world, especially the United States of America and WHEREAS, the vast majority of Americans are not offended by use of the words Christmas and Merry Christmas, but rather give and receive love, hope, comfort and joy to and from one another by using those words..." It is amazing reading. Check it out: http://www.nashville.gov/mc/resolutions/rs2005_1118.htm :D

[digbugsgirl]

This needs to be adopted EVERYWHERE!!

Brandy

[candycanemartini]

I'm not religious and did not grow up in a religious home but my family and I have always loved Christmas. I know that people are very concerned with being pc lately but this just makes me very sad :sad:

[gameshowguy2000]

I read that, and it seems like the Mayor didn't like that idea.

Good thing he didn't sign it, because he doesn't want anyone telling him (or anyone else for that matter) whether to say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays.

I don't mind you guys wishing me a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, or Season's Greetings for that matter. You can wish me all 3 if you so desire.

[caseydbell]

In my district area we have winter holiday, holiday trees displayed, all other loads of crap :-( :sad: :-o :-? :x :( . send the ACLU a christmas card :lol:

[sheepsnot]

I was just thinking about the quote from It's A Wonderful Life that HN7 uses as a signature: "Teacher says every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings." I wonder if that teacher was fired for talking about religion?

[dvdguy]

did I ever tell you guys the story of the santa I met who got fired for talking about Jesus?

[sheepsnot]

I'm all ears...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/dandsf480/85700AFhe_w.jpg

[dvdguy]

so very disturbing

Anyway, when I worked for Macy's, I met a gentleman who used to be a mall santa. He was fired for telling a story about the candy cane, which was in the shape of j for Jesus.

[sheepsnot]

He probably got fired for lying to the kid. It's in the shape of a J so it'll hang and look like a cane. You ever try to hang peppermint sticks?

[dvdguy]

lol, i forget the whole story, I just know it involves candy canes, Jesus & thats it

[gameshowguy2000]

In my area, a middle school student sued, saying that him not being allowed to bring candy canes to his school's Christmas party was a violation of the 1st Amendment.

I mean, if I were one of his classmates, and didn't want a candy cane, I could simply refuse.

[ReineV]

I understand why everyone says that America was founded on Christianity. It is true, the America that we know today was founded BY Christians...after an entire race of people (Native Americans) were almost completely destroyed and another group of people (African Americans) were enslaved by the aforementioned Christians. We have to remember the whole story....and not just pick out that it was founded on the basis of Christianity...this country was also founded on killing and slavery, but thankfully, we're not living/practicing slavery and genocide anymore. I am a Christian myself, but I have a very mixed group of friends, and before I came to my university and got to know them and learn about what they believe and their practices, I could care less about anyone who didn't share the same beliefs as me. I realized that their beliefs should be respected the same way I want mine to be respected. Kids can be mean and if Christianity is the only thing mentioned in schools, the handful of Jewish/Muslim/Hindu/other children in class will feel isolated or penalized because they're not Christian and that's not fair...their religion isn't even mentioned in school, while Christmas is flaunted in their faces. I don't think that the average American can't list one Muslim holiday, but anyone in the USA regardless of religion can spout off three Christian holidays. I think all religions should be respected in schools. Not "taught" per se, but respected. Just put yourself in their place...you wouldn't want to be isolated would you? You're in America...the land of freedom.

[sheepsnot]

I agree. Allow them all to express their beliefs instead of denying anyone the right. Don't remove words or icons in an effort not to offend. Part of this whole diversity thing is being able to tolerate the freedoms of others. For example, I hate the idea of burning the flag. It is terribly offensive to me for a number of reasons. However, as long as local fire laws are obeyed, I think it is an expression of anger that should be allowed. I also agree that the various religious beliefs should be taught about (not taught as right or wrong) in school because they are a very large and important part of the world, causing and curing many of the world's ills. The logistics of teaching various faiths is complicated, though. Do you use representatives to do it and risk proselytizing? Do you have someone who doesn't believe in any of them teach it so as to be fair? Do you just go shopping and have a pumpkin spice latte and let someone else figure it out? Sounds like a plan to me! 8)

[mrshamm]

What makes me mad is at my brother's high school they put up a Christmas tree, a menorah, and Kwanza decorations but they refuse to allow a nativity to be brought into the school.

[Ervserver]

things sure have changed from my pupil days, we used to bring home made treats to school on the last day before Christmas break, had a little party. Now schools here don't allow ANY home made stuff, has to be prepackaged and bought from a store.

[sheepsnot]

Really? What do they do about kids swapping lunches and such?

[dvdguy]

thats kinda dumb

[sheepsnot]

None of us suffered from eating tasty homemade treats!

[dvdguy]

I meant the lunches

[sheepsnot]

What's dumb about swapping lunches? Kids do it all the time.

[Ervserver]

Really? What do they do about kids swapping lunches and such?

not heard any issues with that. Never heard any issues with bringing home made treats either....just one day the schools enacted the new policy out of the blue.

[dvdguy]

these conversations are the reason I drink

[Ervserver]

egg nog?

[sheepsnot]

Each time eggnog is mentioned on MMC I get a phone call. So, apart from having it made in Texas and shipping it to Iowa and Tennessee, what's the game plan for getting some today?

[Ervserver]

got the IOWA game on and I sure could use some...hmmmm

[lowno]

Hello - our children are confused when we speak with joy of memories of school pageants depicted only in movies. In 1993 the Nye County, NV ban on Christmas celebrations in schools bewildered the community of Amargosa Valley, NV where, to their knowledge, the one Jehovah's Witness family had no objection to the Christmas pageant tradition. The community music teacher took the lead and offered to direct a pageant for those children & families who wanted to participate. In a rural community with several churches it was easier to get the event organized with a strong leader, who happened to be married to the Town Board chairman.
Alas, traditions are lost and opportunities to make memories are waived as people move away, lose contact, and let old hurts impede communication.
Happily, you can make the most of a new situation, a new group of people, to make new friends and memories in a new community.
Do make the most of your holidays for your children. :-? :) [/quote][/list]

[Ervserver]

It takes a village